zoom affects point size

Hi,

I’m using TBS 4.5 with a Wacom Intuos and a MacBook Pro (OS 10.5.7). I’ve noticed a strange behavior and I’d like to know if you consider this to be a bug. I pick a brush and draw at one view and get one brush size. If I zoom in work in a detail area, the brush size gets relatively smaller compared to the strokes drawn in the other view, using the same brush. If I zoom out and draw with the same pen, the pen size gets bigger. It appears brushes work relative to zoom, which makes consistency extremely difficult. Photoshop and Illustrator don’t behave this way. They definitely track the speed differently, since I’m covering less distance across the surface of the tablet the further away I’m zoomed, but the width stays relatively consistent.

This sure seems like a bug… is it known? Better yet, do you have a fix or a workaround?

Thanks for your help!
Tom

BTW, I just tested this in TBS v 3.01 and the same problem DOES NOT occur. It also doesn’t matter whether the rendering mode is Quartz or Open GL. Anyone notice this? Seems like a big problem for consistency.

Thanks,
Tom

Hi,

I am not quite sure but for me this has been like that in every version I have tested from 3.0 to 4.5. This is the default behavior of the software which basically keep the pen proportion regardless of the zoom level so that your lines will be constant throughout the project.

We could make a feature request to get some kind of toggle that allow the unlink those.

Regards,

Ugo

Hi Ugo,

Thanks for the response. I’m not sure we’re on the same page. What I mean is that the brush size ends up being inconsistent, because (for me) the zoom percentage affects the size. This is very noticeable with Pen 2 (brush size 1 - 5). If you zoom in and draw something with it and then zoom out and draw more, you will get to different sets of widths from the same brush! (By the way, you’re right about 3.0. I went back and tested it again and go similar functionality to v4.5 and v5.) This behavior is not how Illustrator and Photoshop work, which I think need to be considered the standard.

My screenshots below illustrate the problem pretty well. If I’m zooming in to do detail work, my pen size should not change so radically, or I’d have to keep different pens for different zoom levels and I’d have to know what zoom level I was at, which seems hard to know in TBS. Does this make sense?

Tom (see below)

Here is a screenshot from v5 of TBS:
http://homepage.mac.com/lappleton/v5pen2.png

Here is how Illustrator does it:
http://homepage.mac.com/lappleton/illustrator.png

And here is how Photoshop does it:
http://homepage.mac.com/lappleton/photoshop.png

Hi,

I see now, basically the pen may increase in size when zoomed out since there is a minimal size that we setup so you can see what you are drawing.

This have not changed since the first launch of Toon Boom Studio, although it may not be noticed if the size of your pen was big enough to be seen correctly when zoomed out.

Regards,

Ugo

Hi Ugo,

Thank you for your response. However, I gather from it that you don’t believe this is a bug. If this is the case, I hope you’ll reconsider filing this with your R&D department. I believe that I’ve demonstrated that this behavior is inconsistent and also is not shown in other major draw/paint products. Just because it’s been like this forever in TBS doesn’t make it right. The simple fact is that you don’t get consistent pen weights when zooming in and out, which makes drawing consistently with a pressure-sensitive tablet extremely difficult.

If anything, would you please post a feature request for this option to be added in preferences? That way, users who are used to this behavior won’t see a change but those of us who need consistency can have it. Right now I’m looking at either doing all of my work in Illustrator so I can get consistency or use a real magnifying glass on the screen to help my poor eyes. That’s a silly alternative.

Respectfully,
Tom

Hi,

I will make a request to examine the feature for I do understand this can be problematic when consistency in the line is need.

This being said zooming in on the drawing did not affect the line thickness for me. If your line is big enough to be fully shown on screen when you draw it should not be affected by zooming in. This is easy define by setting both your maximum and minimum value to be the same and try drawing with the pen. If you notice some thick and thin being applied on the line this is most likely caused by the fact your zoom factor is too far for the pen thickness used. When your line is fully shown to it’s maximum thickness you will get a very constant and stable line.

Best regards,

Ugo

Thanks for listening, Ugo. I see your point about line thickness and extreme zooms. Line consistency is pretty good for zooming that isn’t so extreme. It just seems like TBS should make and exact width based on pressure, max and minimum amounts regardless of zoom. Its drawing on the screen should be disconnected from the actual production of the line. The on-screen imaging of the line could then be averaged based on zoom and if someone was zoomed way out, all they’d see is a hairline.

While we’re on the topic, it would be cool if the cursor showed a brush size rather than a cross-hair, kind of like Photoshop. I think an improvement might be to draw two concentric circles indicating min (interior) and max (exterior) sizes.

By the way, have you ever noticed that the zoom keys (x and z) sometimes don’t work unless you draw something new in a cell? I’ll click on a cell and try to zoom in but won’t be able to unless I first paint a dot. That seems a little screwy.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I realize the production of such things is much more difficult than the imagining of them. : )

Best,
Tom

Hi,

I will see about the cursor update as it would be something interesting to do if not too complicated to implement.

As for the zooming this is related to the focus of the window. Basically every zone of your interface can be considered as different floating window (as it was in previous versions of the software). Even if they are now all merged together the same concept apply. Therefore, to be able to use a shortcut that would apply in the drawing view you need to make sure that the focus is in the drawing view. You would notice that if you clicked in the timeline the last time before using the zoom in and out shortcut it would actually zoom in the timeline rather then the actual camera. Certain shortcut are used in different view and have different effects (copy and paste for exemple). If you copy a frame from the Drawing zone you will only be able to paste it in the drawing zone, therefore you need to select the next frame you want to go to then focus back in the drawing zone and paste.

Hope this help you understand a little better how this works.

Best regards,

Ugo

Hi, I’d also love to have the option of a brush-tip cursor in addition to the cross-hair cursor. Older versions of TBS used to have that, as I recall.
-Elwood

Has anyone fixed this yet? This bug (design flaw?) is causing serious problems to my work flow.

:stuck_out_tongue:

this design flaw is also affecting my workflow. my prefered line thickness is using 1/5 brush zoomed in by pressing the zoom button twice. it is extremely difficulty to clean up a drawing at that close specially when ur cleaning up something thats a closed up shot(ie. face) and draw a face were u dont need to be that close or zoomed to draw it.

http://paperlessanimation.blogspot.com

Yeah please fix this quick - I’m thinking ditching ToonBoom from my studio altogether. I adds too much work to be worth the trouble.

found a solution here.

http://paperlessanimation.blogspot.com/2011/02/speed-drawing-003.html