Still find TBS so very.. very frustrating

After 3 years… 3 different computers, still cannot figure out why when I draw a building, desk etc …(any back ground object) and pan the camera towards or away from the objects they wobble frantically!!

Also, after 2 months of work, 100’s of frames of individual drawings I cannot understand why I cant attach some elemnts to PEG …why TBS starts to freeze and delay …why TBS just shuts down without warning.

Please …forget the upgrades …just try to address these problems. In fact I’d fear TBS adding more stuff on top of what they now have and creating even more problems!!

I can draw a simple square …using the mouse …expose it for 100-200 frames …zoom the camera towards or away from it and watch this un-relenting annoying wobbling that will not stop until the camera stops panning!!

I spent months doing this work … only to find I have to wait almost 5 minutes for the it just to open. Now I can’t attach certain elements to the PEG …the items just will not move in the timeline.

Its so depressing and frustrating because I want to take the next step with my work …but with these issues …TBS can only be a hobby for me.

By now I’m almost certain that once I get up to over 500 frames …things just don’t work the same.

Sometimes we get so focused on doing something a certain way that we lose sight of the fact that we might be more successful with a different approach. Many people are highly successful using TBS and do not suffer your frustrations. It may not be a diffeciency of the product but rather how you are trying to use it. This may not be the answer you want to hear but perhaps you need to start over at square one and try to discover what you are doing that is different from everyone else. Just a thought to consider. I’m not trying to be argumentative but perhaps you need to consider a different approach to how to use this software as the one you continue to try is frustrating you. -JK

Not sure what you mean by …“how I’m tryingto use it”. This is an animation software right? I’m just trying to animate basic charater movements …to get better at it and to see where it’ll take me. But if after animating several hundred frames and then trying to use the PEG system the software fails what can I do?

I have a new machine with AMd 64 technology … an new laptop with intel technology as well and the result is the same. I draw a square or circle expose it for maybe 100 frames and attach a peg to the camera to either zoom in or away from the object …and it wobbles like something in an earthquake shot!!

I have (per their request) created these tbd files send them to TBS and they have no answer! As far as I’m concerned if I went out and spent $1M to get the best machine possible …this will still happen.

Maybe a better statement is …“I need to change my expectation” …from the software!
All along my expectations was based on me being the limiting factor … and not the software

Sorry if my advice doesn’t make sense to you. What I was trying to say was perhaps you might want to take a different approach. One problem with most animation software is that it is so complex that often it lets you do things in so many different ways that you get the impression that just because the software doesn’t stop you from doing something that means it will work that way. This often is not true. TBS is no exception. It will let you try to do things and the results are not always as expected. That’s part of the nature of really complex software. There are paths that get you great results and dead ends, the trick in learning to use these applications is to recognize the dead ends and avoid them. By the way, Flash has similar dead ends, they seem reasonable and logical but it just doesn’t work that way. When you hit a dead end you have to just make a note that it doesn’t work and avoid it. It is the old trying to drive a square peg into a round hole problem. I sure am sorry that you are having such a tough time, but don’t get discouraged. Usually just taking a step back and relooking at things differently will help you make a breakthrough discovery.

One last piece of “wisdom”, I continuously hear, “read”, people make remarks about “well I just don’t understand why such a simple animation just doesn’t work”…That statement is a red flag for sure. There is nothing simple about most of the things people try to do with these applications. It may seem simple because you have seen others use the technique, but that is the secret, they have learned to apply a usually difficult and complex technique and it just looks easy. Camera moves are a perfect example. Most skilled activities look simple until you actually try to do them. -JK

Hi Tiger,

For the moment Toon Boom Studio is not yet supported on 64 bits system which most likely explains the instabilities on your machine. For the time being though there is a way to emulate 32 bit system while launching the application. Here is how it is done:

- Go in the folder where you installed Toon Boom Studio and find the TBS.exe file.

- Right click on the file and go into Properties and access the Compatibility tab

- In the Compatibility mode section check the Run this program in compatibility mode and go select Window XP

Hopefully it will solve some of your problems.

Best regards,

Ugo

Hi Ugo,

I’m not using 64 bit technology. I have the CPU capable of using this platform but I still use micrsofts 32 bit application.
But wait …I tried what you suggested and noticed that there was no XP option under the “compatibility tab”.

Here are the options I saw:

MS-95
MS NT 4.0(Service Pack 5)
MS 98
MS 2000

Again No XP was observed.

I am using TBS version V3.0
And I am running TBS basically on two machines. My mobile Tablet PC usues …

Tablet PC edition 2005
version 2002
service pack 2


My desktop runs:
Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 2

Are you sure there is an “XP” option under the compatibility tab?

I actually uninstalled TBS and downloaded the lastest application from your download section …today… and still see no “XP” option under the compatibility mode section

The version I downloaded and re-installed from TBS website stated: TBS V3 -Windows (3.0.1)


But when I click the properties option from the TBS.exe file I also saw a tab called “version”

I looked there and see I’m using:

FILE VERSION -------2.5.0.0
PRODUCT VERSION --2.5


Hi tiger372,

Just curious have you saved out any of the animation(s) as a Flash movie or other movie type? When you view these do they show a wobble?

Hi tiger,

TBS should wobble like that. I use it on my home pc (which kinda old) and never got any problems like these.

I also tested 4 different Tablet PC (Toshiba models) and didn’t get any problems at all.

Your machine seems fine. What kind of video card do you have?

Is it an on-board video card ?

Have you tried to switch from Direct3D to OpenGL. You might get better performances depending on the video card. Have you tried changing some setings in the display tab of the preferences (BTW, you need to close and re open TBS when changing any of the preferences).

Do you animate using bitmap images ? We do have a performance problem when using lots of bitmaps.

Thanks,

HI mATHIEU,

The very first line of your reply …"did you mean to say TBS should not wobble…?

I am running TBS on 2 machines. With the desktop I use the Wacom Intous 3 tablet. This machine has a seperate ATI RADEON 9250 card with 1G ram and an AMD 64 Athlon chip.

I have a Gateway Tablet PC CX200X and this also has a seperate ATI MOBILITY RADEON X600 SE card, an Intel Pentium M with 1.5G ram.

I knew to stay away from integrated cards. Gateway no longer use Wacom Technology …they have started using a vendor called finepoint. However there has been no difference in how this technology works with TBS when compared to my desktop.

The wobbling I talked about is the same thing I have been trying to fix while I only had my desktop.

I am not using any bitmap objects …everything I use is hand drawn directly in TBS.

Basically if I draw a very basic square/rectangle for example using the rectangle tool…expose it for …say 60 frames …and attach the camera to the PEG move it towards or away from the object … square/rectangle begins to wobble until the camera stops!!

But its not just a square …its anything …even if my character is walking …if the camera pans he will wobble …only it may not be as obvious because he’s moving. But with still objects the wobbling becomes very noticeable.

Another thing to keep in mind is that I’ve spent days, weeks reading the manual … and trying different things …but nothing works!! At times I’ll work knowing that this is a limitation I have to live with… so I try to avoid camera movement …but this is too limiting!!


Finally I am curious about whether or not an XP option should be available under the Compatibility tab (see UGO post earlier)?? Can anybody answer that?

NOW TBS WILL NOT START!!

I was trying to see what happens when I use different compatibility options to run TBS …and for no reason first TBS would start and immediately close . I un-installed and re-installed the software several times but with the same or worse results. Sometimews it just doesn’t start at all. I’m not trying to open a previous file …just the basic blank/new file

WHAT the …#@**%$##@ …IS GOING ON!!! WHY IS TBS REFUSING TO START ON MY LAPTOP? WHERE IS THIS 'XP" OPTION UGO MENTIONED UNDER THE COMPATIBILITY MODE??

>:( >:(



You will only have the ‘XP option’ if you are running Windows X64. You are already using windows XP so the option isn’t there.

Hi tiger,

As Fireburst said the compatibility mode only appears if you are working with Windows XP64. You might want to check on your PC for spywares and virus at that point, if the software use to launch and does not launch anymore that means something changed on your machine and unless you have installed something new it is most likely caused by some virus/spyware. By the way make sure to put back your compatibility mode to XP or 2000 since other versions are not supported.

Best regards,

Ugo

God …I just hate these analysis! Of all the years I’ve ever owned a computer …bought a software and dealt with tech support… never …never …did I ever have a spy or virus when they make this claim!!

Why would you go there …when the malfunction occured as a direct result of my MAKING CHANGES YOU SUGGEST!!!

Your banking on this amazing coincidence that when I changed compatibility settings …I suddenly incurred a VIRUS!!! Please give me a break here! I have no virus or spyware I have the number one listed virus protector (Bit Defender) , adequate spyware, firewall and secure router …SO LETS NOT GO THERE!!

I somehow got this working again … but the issue of wobbling is what I would hope someone will address …I am convinced its a TBS issue because on several different independent platforms I get the same result.

Hi Tiger,
I’m new to Toon Boom but have been animating in Flash for years now.

The wobbling you are talking about sounds the same as a problem that occurs in Flash when you use the pen tool for outlines rather than the brush tool and then motion tween the scale of the graphic. The thickness of the line doesn’t scale perfectly and sort of jumps between line weights making it appear to flicker/wobble – this infuriated me at the time and I now draw everything with the Brush tool or convert lines to fills to avoid this.

So your problem sounds like a limitation of the Flash technology rather than TBS.

Try converting the lines to fills and the wobbling should stop when you scale/ zoom in with the 3D camera in TBS.

Have you exported your animation as a .mov or .avi - Does the wobbling still occur?

Please show us an example of your problem in a .swf

In the physical world when you make a significant change in field size during a zoom you must adjust the frame spacing during the zoom to account for apparent changes in speed otherwise you will get visual distortion. Basically this means that you can’t zoom at a constant velocity. This is also true in Toon Boom or Flash. Therefore you must adjust the velocity of the zoom to compensate. In TBS that means using the function editor to reshape the velocity curve associated with your camera move. The slow accelleration curve provided as a pre-set is a good starting point for this adjustment. In Flash Professional you can use custom easing to make similar adjustments although it is more complicated than TBS. -JK