Parts of Expanded Symbol frozen in render

Hi all

I am in the home stretch of a 30-second spot and all of a sudden, some parts of one character’s head are not moving with the rest of the head in the render. The head was originally a symbol with multiple nested layers. In order to access the mouthshapes for lip sync (they didn’t appear in the Map LipSync panel) I expanded the symbol, and then animated them. All parts are still nested and I did not delete the parent symbol. In the camera window, all animation looks fine with all parts doing what they are supposed to do, however, when I render the scene some of the facial features stay put while the rest carries on as keyed.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I was to send a rough cut to the client last night and was up until 3:00am trying to get this sorted. Cheers!

Brent Lowrie

Hi Lilly

I am using Animate 2 build 7.9.0 6015.

I have created automated lip sync using symbols before (with the Animate 1 and 2 but the new build is… well… new) without a problem but and even with these symbols but this time the mouthshape layers didn’t show up in the Map Lip-Sync panel dropdown. The only thing there was a repeat of the head symbol again.

I haven’t been deleting the exposure or the original parent symbol but rather hiding the parent symbol but using it like a peg to animate the rest of the expanded layers. I’m getting the feeling now this is not the proper protocol.

Any way of deleting the exposure but keep the keys?

I will upload some screen shots if removing the exposure doesn’t work. Thanks again!


So I can clear the exposure but it translates the x and y position og the art although the numbers are the same in the Pos x and Pos y. Also, once I clear the exposure, the set pivot is repositioned and I can’t set it on the symbol layer like with a peg. Sort of defeats the purpose of using pegs to group layers.

Here is a link to a screenshot from within Animate 2

Here is a link to the rendered result for the same frame

So I cleared the exposure from the original parent symbol layers which offset the xy position of the heads but maintained the animation. I had to re-position the heads on every key as they seemed to jump about in a random fashion. At any rate, thanks Lilly and all who chimed in to help. I sent the cut off to the client in the wee hours of this morning and await their feedback.

I hope to get a case study up on the ToonBoom site when it is all said and done. Cheers!

That all makes sense Lilly. My mistake was not exposing the frames of my mouthshapes within the symbol but rather have the mouthshapes in a nested symbol. I’ll try that on the next project as I have already implemented the workaround described in my previous post.


What software are you using? Animate 1 or Animate Pro 1? Or Animate 2 or Animate Pro 2? As a note, you should have no problem lip syncing inside a symbol with version 2.

A screenshot would be really helpful here. Just upload your screenshot to a free site like photobucket and post the link here.

One thing that I can tell you from your description is that when you expand a symbol, what it does is it brings those parts that are inside the symbol OUT of the symbol and onto the main stage. However there will also still be a copy of the symbol that will form the parent for the expanded symbol.

What you need to do is to select the original blue symbol on the main timeline and delete the exposure. Then you will only have the children - the mouths and such that you synched to. If you delete the ones that you expanded instead, you’ll lose your lip sync.

I hope that helps.


So just going back to the lip synching inside a symbol thing, let me point out how it works. If you have a head symbol that has a mouth inside of it, you can do it two ways. Either you can go inside the symbol and map the lip sync in there (which is what you effectively did by expanding the symbol out). Or you can map to the whole head symbol. When you map the lip sync, it will ask you what layer you want to map to, and what symbol you want to map to. So if your mouth is inside your head symbol, then you should select the head symbol. Then if you leave all else as is, it will fill in A - 1, B - 2, etc. So what it’s going to do here is swap in the first frame of the head symbol (for all layers) for A, then the second frame for B, and so on.

For this to work you just need to make sure that in your head symbol all the other layers have their exposure all the way to the end of the exposure for the mouth as well. Does that make sense?

It might be worth your while to redo the mapping and simply get rid of the expanded layers - this is probably the easiest way to solve your issue. If you delete all of your expanded layers, then map the lip sync to the symbol, this should not overwrite any of your keys.

I have a suspicion that what is happening here is that when you are hiding the symbol layer, that is also turning off the translation that you have on that layer, and that’s why you’re having some parts “pop off” to another location.

To double-check whether the frame is rendered as it’s supposed to be, inside animate click on the blue flower for “Render View” to double-check what the render does inside the software.