Moving a group including peg, but not a transform?

A little interface question.

I’ve rigged a cut out character. A pretty standard setup. Upper arm, lower arm, hand, and the equivalent for the legs, pivot points all set. But lets say I don’t like where the arm starts, and like to move the entire arm keeping my pivots. I could switch to Camera view and transform it, but I’d like to able to use the “remove all keyframes” feature. If I transformed the arm in camera view, “remove all keyframes” would reset it back to the position it was drawn in.

So there’s my question. Is there any way to move the group, pegs and pivots, without having to move the parts individually, and re-do the pivot points.


In camera view you can use the scene operations select tool to reposition any element with out effecting its orientation in drawing view and there are no keyframes involved so removing keyframes later won’t effect the settings you make with the select tool. I hope this helps you. -JK

Not exactly.

I actually want to change the position of the arm all at once, each part and each peg, such that when I “remove all keyframes”, this positioning is the keyframe-less arrangement. I’d like to not have to move each part individually in drawing view, and redo my pivots in camera view. Sure, it’s do-able, but I’m checking if there’s some sort of easy right click and select “make this keyframe home frame” option. The point is if I drew the arm in the wrong spot and wanted it moved, or if I wanted to use a copy for the 2nd arm, to save me the work of redoing the pivot and the alignment of each part.

The scene planning select tool has no effect on your original drawing or anything to do with drawing view. It can only be used in camera view. It is used to position elements in camera view which is what you seem to be wanting to do. You can use it to scale, align, rotate ect, but no keyframes are involved, the settings are global and static not frame specific. It has no effect on rotational pivot point setting either, they will be however you set them. You can position each element individually or you can select and move groups of elements together with this tool. Based on what you have written so far this is the tool to solve your problem. It is used to position and align the parts of a character in camera view without respect to how those parts were drawn in drawing view. It may look to you like the transform tool because it has a similar bounding box except for the solid handles instead of unfilled handles but it is a totally different tool and used to make settings that will not be animated thru keyframes. -JK

No, that’s not what I want to do. But it is the only way to select multiple objects, or even work with peg hierarchies. What I’d like to be able to do is move the upper arm, the lower arm, the hand, and the respected pegs, in such a way that the pivots still work in camera view, and “remove all keyframes” sends them to a position not where I initially drew them.

There isn’t a way to make pegs do anything in drawing view, is there?

I realize though, what I’m asking might not be doable. I may have to settle for, as you’ve pointed out, a root transformation that requires a keyframe (thusly making the “remove all keyframes” feature not that useful). Or option B, which has me move each part individually, and re setting up the pivots at the new location. I was hoping for an alternative to these.

If you have multiple parts in a hierarchy (hand, lower arm, upper arm for example) then collapse the parent of the hierarchy (the upper arm or a peg if you are using separate parent peg elements) Then using the scene planning select tool ( keyboard short cut “6”) click on the collapsed top of the hierarchy of this group in your time line and then in camera view move the selected grouped hierarchy however you want. The scene select tool does not and can not set a keyframe, so you don’t have to worry about keyframes in making this move of your selected group. I can’t explain it more clearly then that. This will have absolutely no impact on the relative position of your pre-set pivot points for each of the body parts in the group. That’s the best that I can do for you. Perhaps someone else can explain it more clearly. -JK

Right, but “Remove All Keyframes” sends it back to it’s initial drawn position. “Remove Keyframes” (no “All”) resets it back to the position set by scene-planning tool.

So if arm is in the wrong spot in drawing view, i.e. on his head instead of at the shoulder, if I “correct it” in camera view with the scene-planning arrow tool, if I later use “Remove All Keyframes”, it would put the arm back on his head.

So, as far as I figure, the only way to fix this “arm on the head” character is in drawing view, move each piece individually, and re-create the pivots. Sure, the above is an extraneous example, but a more practical reason for doing this would be creating copies of legs and arms. In an arm/leg copying situation, if you left it as is and relied on a scene-planning tool transformation to place your other arms and legs, your drawing view character is this disfigured one arm one leg looking beast. That is, unless it’s useful to work in drawing view with parts detached from the body. It might be for hidden parts, I’m not sure. Just that forces you to select all, then choose “remove keyframes” instead of “remove all keyframes”. That is usable, but I wonder if there should be 2 options everywhere “remove all keyframes” shows up. One to do keyframes only, and one to reset everything (scene planning transformation too).

Just some suggestions:

Be sure you are using version 3.5 or higher as there are significant differences from earlier versions.

Be sure you are not using a cut-out character constructed in a version prior to version 3.5 (The Der Der rig for example was constructed in version 3.0 so it may not have been constructed the same as a rig would be done in V3.5 or later, The select tool use to set keyframes but it no longer does that in v3.5 or higher)

When constructing anything in camera view, always do your static layout using the scene operations select tool before you create the first keyframe and don’t change static settings after you begin keyframing as the results can be unpredictable. This is also true for setting pivot points using the rotation tool or the scale tool or the skew tool. Pivot points locations are also static settings and should not be changed after keyframing begins. The temporary pivot point (blue) on the transform tool is used for temporary pivot changes and does not effect the static ones set by the rotation tool etc.

I have no idea what you are doing, but if you are using V3.5 or above then what you described is not true. What you set in camera view with the scene select tool will stay set in camera view, and what you started with in drawing view is unaffected by any settings made in camera view unless you use the drawing tools in camera view. No scene planning tool has any effect on the actual drawings themselves. -JK

:stuck_out_tongue: It seems that if you already have keyframes and transforms applied to your element, and then you use the scene planning select tool to move your element to a desired position, and then remove all your keyframes, the element is moved back to its original default (undesired) position.

If your element does not have any keyframes and transforms applied to it, then you can use the scene planning select tool to move it to the desired default position.

completely off topic and of absolutely no use here, but…

Yellowglide, with a name like that I have to wonder if you join us from the back of a Yellow motorcycle from Milwaukee?

(three weeks into the school year and my brain barely works in the off hours, I usually try to be more helpful than this) :wink:

It is nice to hear from you, I glad you are so busy with “work”, and I’m sorry you are so busy with “work”. (not cartooning) Hope to see you back at tooning more soon. I miss your blog posts.

Thanks for your input, although I need to clear up some confusion I have created in my previous posts.

To all,
I sometimes can be “hard headed” and when that happens it usually causes me to say things I later regret. This is the case here.

The scene planning select tool is the correct tool for positioning elements and hierarchies before animating them in camera view. And it does not set any keyframes (as of V3.5) its settings are global to the scene and static.

But after running several tests in V3.5 and V4.0, I have concluded that “remove all keyframes” does in fact clear not only the keyframe values for an element but also all the static global properties as well. This is a reality but also a logical anomaly. I won’t go so far as to say it is a “bug” but it is illogical. I’ll leave that up to the development and support team at Toon Boom Animation to address.

“Remove all keyframes” should not logically have any impact on non-keyframed settings, but it does. This may be exactly as intended in the software specs and just a confusion in the name of the command. In any case, I believe that unless or until this is changed in a future update of the software, that “remove all keyframes” has to be viewed as the option of last resort because it cleans the slate totally of all you previously did to an element prior to the “remove all keyframes” comand being applied for that element or group of elements. Which includes “Properties” which were not set as keyframe values but rather were set as static global properties which are specific to the element in a scene and not keyed to a specific frame.

So to PoVRAZOR and all who have been following this thread I apologize for any confusion that I might have created. You can’t use “remove all keyframes” unless you really want to start over completely from the beginning of scene planning for that element or group of elements. -JK